Alan Warner - The Foundations/Pluto
When and where were you born?
Born and raised in Paddington, UK on April 21st of 1947.
What was growing up like for you?
As a kid in London, I went to Wilberforce school. It was a very old school, and daunting for a youngster like me. There were two sides to the school. My two older brothers were on one side, and I was on the other. I used to freak my mum out when out walking cos I would wander off and get picked up by a police car, which became a regular thing. An uncle of mine was a rag and bone man, and he used to let me take the reins of his horse when going around on his horse and cart.
When I was around 6 or 7 years old we moved out to Borehamwood where everything was all fresh and new, with countryside around us. A big change from the London streets. The neighboring area of Elstree was a major centre for film production, so I would often be waiting outside to collect autographs. I was waiting for Tommy Steele to come out one day, but he never appeared. He was one of my first guitar idols along with Duane Eddy, Link Wray, Dick Dale, The Shadows etc.
Warner in his back garden.
When did you first begin playing music and what led to your interest in the guitar? What initially sparked your interest in music? Do you have any siblings?
My interest in music must have started at a very early age cos I remember trying to play tunes on anything I could get hold of, from a toy piano to a Harmonica. Even one of my Dad’s empty tobacco tins served as a kind of musical instrument after I’d wrapped several elastic bands around it lol. I managed to master the Harmonica till the reeds wore out. My parents also bought me a toy Accordion! I was just mastering the accordion when it promptly fell apart. After several attempts at taping up the bellows, I had to admit defeat, before moving on to the tennis racquet. Strumming the tennis racquet’s strings, gave me the idea that the guitar would be my chosen instrument.
This is when I started listening to Folk and skiffle groups, and a bit later, rock and roll. My interest in the guitar came from hearing Lonnie Donegan, The Springfields and various skiffle groups strumming guitars. l then started picking up guitar tunes by listening to Duane Eddy, Link Wray, Dick Dale etc. One of my older brothers was a big fan of Rick Nelson and he had all his singles and albums. Rick had a great young guitar player in his band called James Burton. I would sit there for hours on end listening to the riffs and licks. I learnt quite a lot from this. I have two older brothers, Dave and Terry and one younger sister Vivian.
The Trekkers. From left to right:AlanWarner(Lead/Rhythm/Vocals, Trevor Roberts (Rhythm guitar/Vocals), Willy Watson (Bass Guitar) and Don Guyver (Drums).
Where would you go to see live concerts and who were some of the first bands you saw?
There was a Hall up the road from where I lived which everyone called the Duff Club. There would be a live band every Saturday Night. The one that left the biggest impression on me was Johnny Del and the Travellers. They played a mixture of rock n roll, along with guitar orientated instrumentals such as The John Barry Seven, The Ventures, The Chantays, The Shadows etc. The guitarist was really good and was meticulous about getting the right sound. That inspired me to work on both the playing techniques and achieving the right sound. We would also go to other halls and clubs to watch famous Artistes such as Screaming Lord Sutch and the Savages, Billy Fury along with visiting American stars, Gene Vincent and the Blue Caps, Eddie Cochran etc.
Tel Thorne and The Dwellers
Who left a heavy impression on you in those early days?
As I mentioned before: James Burton, but also a mix of styles ranging from the Shadows to the Animals, from John Barry 7 to the Ventures and of course the Stones and the Beatles Elvis Presley, Little Richard, Duane Eddy, Billy Fury, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Django Rheindhart, Wes Montgomery, to name a few haha.
The Leesiders Sect: From L to R- Ray Skinner,Mick Beith, Chris Hamilton and Alan Warner.
Can you tell me about your time in The Foundations? Was this the first group you participated in prior to Pluto? How did joining/starting this group come about and what are some of your most fond memories while playing with them?
I started playing in local groups here in the UK. I then went over to Southern Ireland playing the Dublin club scene as well as touring up and down the country, with a band called the ‘Line Up’. While I was there I had a visit from the manager of a group called the ‘Black Eagles’ who were looking for a guitarist to join their band and they wanted me to join them. I explained to him that I had already decided to return to the UK, but out of curiosity I went along for a rehearsal with them. The lead singer/bass player was Phil Lynott who went on to form the mega rock band ‘Thin Lizzy’. They were very friendly guys, and we had a lot of fun at the rehearsal, however I was home sick and I declined the offer to join.
Line Up: From L to R Alan Warner( Nicknamed Lucky by the Irish fans. Ricky,Terry Cassidy(Sitting).Brendan Brophy & Do Do.
The Black Eagles with the late Phil Lynott!
Can you tell me about the studio albums you participated on and what those experiences of recording in the studio were like?
The first Foundations album was From the Foundations, appropriately titled cos we had quite literally risen from the basement. A couple of the tracks had already been recorded when we were being ‘checked out’ by the record company PYE. It was an exciting time recording the other tracks. It was interesting to see how it was all being put together, from learning the songs in the first place. Fortunately this is where my previous experience of reading chord symbols came in handy. I was fascinated with how the recording engineers worked the mixing desk, and also watching the ‘tape op’ sometimes having to place a hand on one of the two 4 track machines tape flange, to stop it going out of sync with the other machine.
(This was used to great effect when the Small Faces recorded Itchycoo Park whereby the two machines went out of sync, creating a spacey psychedelic sound, now known as ‘Flanging’ or ‘Phasing‘). Our next album was recorded live at two venues, Redruth in Cornwall, and Nelson in Lancashire. This was followed by Digging the Foundations. Here we were allowed (although with reluctance from the A&R man), to record some of our own songs. This made things even more exciting for us. Also we had more tracks to play with cos recording machines had gone from 4 tracks to 32 tracks.
What were some of the best shows, or tours during those days? What initially happened to the group leading to the break up in ‘70. You guys put out an impressive body of incredible work in just a little under 5 years. Are you still in contact with some of those guys till this day?
We did a tour in the UK with Stevie Wonder. I will always have fond memories of that. One of the things that struck me was how Stevie’s backing musicians were so friendly and encouraging. Praising us all the time. They could see we were still finding our way, and I personally gained a lot of confidence after that tour. Our American tours were really exciting, although the first one got off to a shaky start. We misjudged the distance we needed to travel, and consequently we turned up too late for our first two dates. After that, we flew everywhere.
On our next American tour, we hired a Greyhound bus with a driver. This time we did get to see a lot of the country. Eventually we split up as we were having problems with our management, and went with another management company, which proved to be a disaster. Also, we were just worn out from years of virtually non stop touring, so we just decided to split and go our separate ways. I don’t see any of the guys from The Foundations now. Unfortunately most of them have gone. I think it’s just myself and one or two others left.
Where were you both musically and personally after The Foundations? How much has your life changed since joining that group up until the split? Where were you currently residing during this time?
I was really getting into the songwriting and also a change of musical direction, after being on the road constantly touring. It was really nice to settle down a bit and spend more time with my wife Julie and daughter Collette. We had just moved into our house in Edgware, NW London.
What led to the decision to start Pluto and how did you initially meet your fellow bandmates Paul Gardner, Derek Jarvis and Michael Worth? What inspired the name? What commonalities did you guys share, whether that was musically, literature, etc.? What did you want to do differently in Pluto that you couldn’t in The Foundations?
Pluto were already in place and put together by Paul Gardner, the original drummer was Terry Sullivan and his brother… On bass guitar. I answered an ad in one of the music magazines. I spoke to Paul and he came round the next day and we clicked straight away, playing our songs to one another and generally coming up with guitar riffs and ideas. Paul had come up with the name Pluto based on the Walt Disney dog, however, when Disney got wind of this, they promptly threatened to sue us. I then thought, what about Pluto the planet as, I didn’t think it was owned by anyone lol. Terry then left the band to join Folk rock band Renaissance, his brother left at the same time to pursue other things. Paul was already a friend of Drummer Derek Jervis.
Derek, originally from Warrington Lancashire, was living in the London area, and decided to give it a go. We then advertised for a Bass player and Mick Worth turned up sporting two Marshall amp heads and 4xMarshall Speaker cabs. Yes Mick was full of confidence ha! ha! We started rehearsing and playing support gigs along with folk rock group Trees who were appearing alongside groups such as Fairport Convention amongst others. After a while the Terry King agency got to hear about us and decided to sign us up. We were gigging all over the place as well as appearing on shows alongside Jon Hiseman’s Coliseum, East of Eden, Home etc. All we needed now was a recording deal. We were going around with demo tapes and eventually the newly formed Prog rock label Dawn decided to sign us up.
Pluto.
What was the band’s process for writing music like?
We (Paul and myself ) wrote individually, but we did collaborate with the song arrangements including Guitar intros, riffs and solos as well as certain vocal harmony parts.
Pluto at the Boat Club in Nottingham circa: 1971.
Where would you guys rehearse?
We rehearsed in Paul Gardner’s parents house in Hendon.
When and where was the band’s first gig?
I can’t remember exactly, it was a Student’s union at a college somewhere, we did quite a few in and around London area.
Promo pic of Pluto for the Terry King agency.
How did the deal with Dawn Records come about?
After trying other record companies without success, we heard about the Dawn label taking on different types of groups and Artistes ranging from rock to prog rock, I already had contact with John McCloud who was the musical director of Pye (which was of course the umbrella company for Dawn).
The record was released on a few different labels that year in ‘71 which included Astor Records and PYE Records. Why was that?
Different labels would refer to the country it was released. I believe Astor was for the country of Australia.
Can you walk me through the process of writing each song and their individual processes?
Often, it would just be a little melodic phrase in my head, and if it kept on! I would then start working on it! Other times it would be a guitar riff, or a chord sequence.
What was it like to work with engineer Dave Hunt and producer/pianist John MacLeod?
Dave was a very good engineer, he would always be open to ideas. We would now and then ask him to try out some recording effects without sticking rigidly to the standard rules. A really nice person to work with. John MacLeod was more strict and traditional, this was really good as well as he would keep things moving so we didn’t get to bogged down. I think the combination worked very well for that time.
John Macleod.
What led to the decision to have illustrator Harry Wilson do the band’s album cover?
Ha! Ha! The first Pluto album! Well, from what I recall, one of the bookers at the Terry King agency was a big guy with a big beard, the ‘God’ like character holding the semi naked lady was modeled on him apparently!
What was the experience of recording that record like? How long did it take from start to finish and where was it made?
It was an exciting experience for us although it was done on a very tight budget, also we would have preferred a younger producer more sympathetic to our musical aims. However, as I mentioned before, because of Macloud’s strictness we did get the job done, it took about two weeks if I remember. The record was recorded at Pye, Great Cumberland place, London.
Did you guys tour, or play any gigs after the record was made in order to support it? If so, what were some of those shows like? Are there any that stand out in your mind to this day? What led to the band hitting a break wall after that record?
Yes, we did tour the UK, things did go well to begin with and the album sales were gaining momentum but then the country was plunged into power cuts and of course this affected our gigs. We would arrive at a venue only to be told we can’t play because of no power, this was really bad timing for us and it really was the start of the end for the band.
After the fallout of Pluto, what did you decide to do?
Well, I had to think about earning money as, I had a family to support and I was falling behind with the mortgage repayments. I still wasn’t receiving any royalties from the record company and publishers, as with a lot of artists back then, we were ripped off. (It took over 10 years before the royalties started getting paid). I had for a while, been thinking of giving guitar lessons so, I put an ad in the local newspaper and I started getting a few regular students, and managed to start getting back on track. I also started getting ideas about writing a guitar tuition book (more about that later).
You’ve played and participated in numerous acts throughout your career with bands and artists such as Status Quo, Procol Harem, Brian Auger Trinity and much more! What are some of your most fond memories during this period in your life and career?
I have fond memories of having the opportunity to travel the world seeing amazing places, which back then would have very difficult being from a working class background. It’s all so different nowadays of course. It was great to meet up with some of my idols and other famous artists along the way, from Roy Orbison to the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Wonder, Janis Joplin, The Byrds…
Ruby Edge: From left to right: Myself, Dave Mansell, Bob Mortimore, Kerry Murray.
Flame: From left to Right: Alan Warner (Guitar/Vocals), Vic Aven (Bass Guitar/Vocals/Guitar), Tony Fossett (Drums).
What was your goal(s) and vision(s) after Pluto?
I started working on a guitar tuition book, initially just for my students then with a view to either getting it published or self publishing it. I also started working on a cassette recording to accompany the book, this was titled the guitar cookbook. Kevin Black, a journalist friend of mine, took a copy to the New Orleans trade show. and left it lying on a stand, whereby a publishing company picked it up, liked the content and offered me a contract for publishing this and several others. These books sold very well, so much so that much larger publishing company Music Sales offered me an even better deal to write several more Books with CD’S. Some of these became very successful and are still being sold today. I started to get urge to run my own recording studio and proceeded to convert the front two bedrooms.
Although it was soundproofed to a degree, there was a bit of a problem with the neighbors. The drums were always the problem. No matter how much I tried, I could never fully stop the sound Travelling. Paul Gardner said his friend had a garage in his back garden, so we converted that and that solved that problem. One day a local rockabilly band the Polecats came in and recorded three demos. One of the demos was a song called rockabilly guy. This shot to no. one in the rock n’ roll charts. They recorded a few more songs and asked me to join them. By now, they were enjoying success with a cover of the David Bowie song ‘John, I’m only dancing’ which was produced by Dave Edmunds, so here I was, back performing live again and haven’t stopped since.
Joker.
Nitro.
What led to the decision to put out a new record with the legendary Pluto group? Can you tell me about the process of writing music again with those guys and what recording was like for you? How did the deal with Morgan Blues Town come about?
Paul and myself decided to record some songs at my studio a few years back, with a view to bringing out another Pluto album. However, this got shelved for one reason or another. I kept the 2 x reels of tape, stored in my house somewhere, Paul rang me one day to say that Lars Gredal from Morgan Blues Town wanted us to record a new Pluto album, so I dug out the tapes and sent them to a company where they transferred them onto a memory stick. To my surprise, all the tracks were still perfectly preserved. This was great cos we already had about three quarters of an album. It was just a case of adding a few overdubs and recording a few extra songs. We recorded the album in just a few days.
Have you guys had the chance to get out and play shows during this time, or are you still laying dormant? I know you mentioned in our correspondence you were taking a trip? Can you tell me about that. When you reflect on your career in music, what are you most proud of? What memories and times do you cherish the most and what advice would you give musicians coming up during these rather strange times?
I’m just proud of the fact that I actually made a living out of doing something that I loved doing. There were a few times along the way where I had seeds of doubt, but I always got back on course. My most memorable and cherished times would have to be when I was making hit records and travelling the world with the Foundations. If I was starting out as a musician today, I would first and foremost enjoy playing music. What I mean is, by all means try and make a career out of it but don’t lose sight of why you are playing music in the first place. JUST ENJOY THE MUSIC. When you pick up the instrument or Mic, try to make it fun as well as being passionate about it. Listen to other players, famous and non famous, to give you inspiration but also get out and play along with other musicians as much as you can. That’s the best advice I can give.
Is there anything else you would like to further share with the readers?
Just be yourself and be honest, Be open to new ideas and try out different things. Don’t worry about making mistakes, sometimes those mistakes can turn into something different and creative.
http://www.pluto-rockband.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/pluto00011
Dakota Brown
