The Zachary Cale Interview
Tell me about growing up in Covington, Louisiana. When did you first begin to fall in love with music, more specifically the guitar? Was music something that was relevant around your household?
I was born in Covington, but I grew up in a super small town called Enon. Barely a town really. We were deep in the country so it was nice to be around so much nature, but I was pretty isolated. Being creative was essential as I didn’t have friends over too often as we lived pretty far from where I went to school. We lived near the Bogue Chitto river, and my backyard connected to the woods. Water moccasins, bull frogs, turkey vultures, even armadillos all thriving back there. I had dogs, cats and chickens. It was country style living and pretty fun as a kid.Music was around as early as I can remember. Louisiana is legendary for its music. Mardi Gras was as big an event as Christmas to our family and that’s music and dancing 24/7. So at a very young age I became familiar with the many vibrant sounds coming out of New Orleans. Professor Longhair, Dr John, Allen Toussaint and Preservation Hall style jazz. All that stuff is so dear to me. There’s so much life in it. Though I should say that even before becoming aware of Louisiana culture and its music I’d listen to my Dad play guitar. There were plenty around the house within reach. It was a visual thing. The shape of them seemed exotic as a little kid. Some of my first memories are listening to the sounds coming out of his amplifier at night. Music was always playing in the house or in the car. My Step-Dad is also a huge music fan and has a vast collection. He turned me on to the current 80s bands at the time like REM, The Cure, XTC and The Police. He was also a Dead Head and a Beatles fan. I got pretty keyed into how songs are crafted by pouring over the lyrics in songs and the verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus structure even before I was writing songs myself just by studying the form.
Who were some of your earliest influences in your more formative years? When and where did you see your first show and what ultimately inspired you to pursue a life and career in music?
As a teenager when I was first learning how to write songs it was the early 90s so Nirvana, Dinosaur Jr and Sonic Youth were the thing. It was such an explosion of new sounds in those years. In college I lived in Olympia WA and I saw so many great shows in the late 90s and early 00s. Dead Moon, Unwound, Cat Power, Mike Watt, Fugazi, Built to Spill, The Dirty Three and The Make Up. Even though I was in college studying art my real college education was playing music and seeing music in Olympia. When I moved to NYC I started getting deeper into the songwriter thing, Elliott Smith was a big one, Townes Van Zandt, Will Oldham, Silver Jews and Peter Laughner. Later it was Dylan and roots music of all types. John Fahey, Bert Jansch and Neil Young. And once you’ve tapped into that zone it’s endless. My first real show was Metallica on the Black album tour. I was only just starting out playing guitar then. I was about 13. It was an insane show, they were at the top of their game then. Seeing a 2 plus hour show in a stadium with 2 encores was pretty eye opening. Two years later I started my first bands and music became a full blown obsession. By that point I had moved on from metal and discovered punk and all the myriad strains associated with it. It was the 90s so the alternative rock culture was in full bloom. Music had become real as I was having band practice, playing gigs in high school, etc. It was clear then that this is what I was going to do.
Tell me about writing and recording your 2005 debut entitled “Outlander Sessions” on New World of Sound. What did you want to achieve and express with this album as well as your experience of writing/recording it? How did the deal with NWOS come about for that release?
At the time I didn’t really think I was making an “official” album. I spent all my high school and college years making 4 track albums on cassettes that I gave to friends. “Outlander Sessions” was really just the same idea. I wasn’t pitching it to a label, or anything. It was just me documenting my time as usual. The difference was I had just moved to NYC so I didn’t know anyone and that album was really just a postcard I was sending back to friends and family. Maybe it was a bit more assured and mature than my previous recordings. I had already gone through years of playing in loud, noisy bands in Olympia, so the stripped down acoustic thing felt like a way to cut the noise and get to the heart of it. I must’ve been in the right place at the right time because “Outlander Sessions” was originally a self released limited edition CD-R and it wound up in the hands of WFMU DJ John Allen (who still has a show there). He offered to release it on his label New World of Sound albeit an edited version and that’s what became my official debut album.
You’ve released such a large body of work over the last 20 years with titles such as “Walking Papers”, “Blue Rider”, “Duskland”, “Skywriting” and so many others. What were some of your most fondest memories, or general highlights of working on some of those projects over the years?
Each album is different and the approach has always reflected that each time. The early days are always going to stick out as everything was new and exciting and anything seemed possible. Recording my second album “Walking Papers” at Bearsville studio was a pretty definitive moment. All the history of that place (The Band, Todd Rundgren, REM and Jeff Buckley all worked there). I think it’s also when I came into my own. I had found my voice. “Blue Rider” was an exciting time. It felt like a redefining of my approach. Even though I self-released that album it resonated in a bigger way than my previous records had. It got me on the road consistently and I really honed in on my live craft. It’s a very spare record so it really was about being as big and bold as you could be completely alone. At that point I think I had mastered the solo troubadour thing. And to this day people mostly think of me in that light. Playing solo is not for everyone and honestly it still scares the crap out of me on occasion, but when the music hits, and you have the audience in your hands, there’s no better feeling. “Duskland” and “Skywriting” were transitional records implementing group dynamics. “Duskland” was more subtle and had a wider cinematic feel. It’s like I was directing a movie. “Skywriting” was more of let’s go electric and play rock n roll. At that time it was fun to make as it was a change in direction but there’s always a learning curve when you have a band to lead. You have to be open to ideas and changing things on the fly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. The amount of songs I left on the cutting room floor over the years is pretty extensive. I keep thinking I should release a record of outtakes from the last 15, or so years. It would be a very eclectic record!
From “Outlander Sessions” to your 2022 debut, “Skywriting” on Org Music, what would you say you’ve learned the most about being a musician? We’re excited to hear your new album “Next Year’s Ghost” that will be released this May on Org Music. What was the overall approach with this album and how did you want to approach this material in comparison to your previous album “Skywriting”?
That you can’t take anything for granted. Just because one album resonated with people doesn’t mean the next one will. It’s a long road and not many have the conviction to stick with it. The diminishing returns of the industry is only getting more minuscule so you have to love it in spite of that. Another thing is that there’s no end to learning more and getting better at what you do. Sometimes it's due to the musicians that you’re collaborating with or maybe just leaning outside of your comfort zone. I change it up a lot so I feel like I’m always challenging myself. There has to be an evolution for me. I’ve been struggling with genre tags since the beginning. I don’t always identify with “folk”, or “indie” music. Substance is the most important thing. Is it saying something? Does it move me? Who cares what style it is. Style can change, but is it communicating anything? The big difference between this album and all my other records is I wrote all these songs on piano. I didn’t play guitar at all! I’ve only been playing piano for about 5 years, so the limitations of that forced me to write more simply.
I’m a huge fan of John Lennon’s first solo album “Plastic Ono Band” and from what I’ve read about it is that John felt similarly. He wasn’t a piano player and he used that limitation to deliver something more soul bearing. The album was made during the intense days of lockdown in 2020-21 (pre-vaccination era) so there were no rehearsals. The group went into the studio totally blind and cut the songs as we were learning them. We were sequestered from each other and playing in masks! It was a strange experience. I hadn’t played with Shahzad Ismaily (bass, synthesizer), or Jeremy Gustin (drums) before. Uriah Theriault who played all the guitar parts is the only one I had previous experience with. There was a total sense of dread at that time in New York. The George Floyd murder had sparked all this unrest in the city. Trump was fanning the flames and it felt like the country was teetering. The music was reflecting that: the isolation, the uncertainty and the unrest. It felt like we were rising to meet the moment. It was a heavy time and sharing that space together was special.
I’d love to know some of the backstory to songs such as “House on Fire”, “Rough Devotion", “Doom Loop” and the album’s opener “Heart of TIn”. Is there anything else you would like to further share with the readers?
The piano figure in “Heart of Tin” was the first musical motif I wrote on piano. Very simple melody, but somehow still bold in its starkness. The lyrics address a loss of faith with the world. When there's so much ugliness out there it's easy to be overcome by it and then in turn become ugly yourself. But in all that cynicism, betting on armageddon as if delighted by the prospect, the narrator manages to see the light. Though they feel inhuman enough to feel as though they are carrying a heart of tin, they have enough sense to see that there's good will out there. It’s about not succumbing to the cynicism despite it feeling completely hopeless at the moment. I sort of quote Lincoln's famous inaugural address in the closing refrain. His "chords of memory" speech where he points toward unification and looking past each other's differences. I was seeing a major parallel that year. “House on Fire” encapsulates those grim early days of lockdown. Sleepwalking through a world that's on fire. Doing normal chores like going to the post office, but in a new reality.
There's a house on fire, but did the narrator start it? Or does it just feel like it's on fire. There's a desperation in the song. Pleading lines that sound like half remembered prayers. Wishing the world we knew to come back but knowing deep down things are not going back. “Doom Loop” was an instrumental the group made on the spot. I had this looping chord structure but no lyrics for it. I started playing it in the studio and everyone improvised around it. The title felt like it summed up the dread of that era. The negative belief cycle, where one negative thought follows another. With “Rough Devotion” I had this experience in the first Summer of lockdown where some friends met up in the park for a friend's birthday. It had been a long time since I had seen anyone publicly. I was struck by that harmony among friends knowing that everything outside this little gathering was so bleak, but for a few hours we escaped that chaotic reality and connected as humans in a park. It feels weird now to think I could be struck by something as simple and beautiful as that little meeting, but it really did feel special at that time and it spurred this song into being. Thanks for listening and hope to see you on the road!
